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Post by razors on Jun 11, 2007 15:45:19 GMT -5
5/5. I love this one. it has some decent kills and we get to see Jason kill a couple of human killers, which is great. There's a very different storyline from all the previous "Camp Crystal Lake" stories. For the first time, we're taken to a new enviroment. The kills are very creative. I love the kill in the bathroom. She had it coming. The boxing scne is hilarious. Another highlight. There's alot to be said about this movie, and it's all good. There is even some scary moments which is rare in the "Friday The 13th" series. I dn't usually find these movies scary but this one had it's moments. Very good.
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Post by GL on Jun 12, 2007 10:34:40 GMT -5
Wow, even I think this one has it's flaws. It's fun, but nowhere near the best (what ruins it is the ballroom scene: Jason plays mind-tricks! teleports around the room!! and delivers the killing blow by strangulation!!!) That scene there is where it loses ground in the series, but it's got a few clever comedic gags, the kills, while not entirely new, have a brutal edge to them and the NY scenes are great in their entirety. It's fun, but not great.
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Post by razors on Jun 12, 2007 17:42:41 GMT -5
Yes, I agree with you about the ballroom scene.
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Post by GL on Jun 13, 2007 10:34:47 GMT -5
Yeah, it's one of the most ridiculous scenes in the genre, but beyond that, it's still entertaining. I just wouldn't think of calling it the best one in the series.
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Post by Dr. Butcher M.D. on Dec 18, 2007 13:06:52 GMT -5
This one is just so cheesey it has to be seen to be believed... or maybe you can just look at the artwork for the film.
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Post by Lazario on Jan 22, 2008 15:29:12 GMT -5
This movie is so radically different from most of the 7 movies before it, calling it the "Best" of the series is hard to do. But in terms of acting, writing, and suspense- this movie is the best in the series. It's a different style. But it's also a better, more realistic approach. In every way. It's also my favorite of the series and would have made the best ending to the Jason character. i think i would have enjoyed this one more if jason had actually taken manhatten early on and went on a random killing spree (the kind he is famous for) surely when he was chasing those two for so long alot more people would have got in his way and he could have quite easily found a weapon of some sorts to kill them with . the subway for example , pushing one person out of the way and not killing anyone with all those people around ....thats not jason , jason in my opinion would have ripped off one of the upright metal poles on the train and made a kebab of victims , i was expecting more from this movie and didn't get it. If this movie were more of a killing-spree gore-effects Freak Show... it would have been lame and silly. We got enough of that in Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X, and Freddy Vs. Jason. I really don't think Jason Takes Manhattan should have been more like those terrible movies. Not even a little. No room in the budget for garish set-pieces. Good. This series works a lot better when they do things as simply as they possibly can. We always got more effectiveness from the camerawork and music of this series. Why should the series suddenly turn into the cheese that made Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X, and Freddy Vs. Jason such cinematic diarrhea? Well I think what we were trying to get at is there could have been more gratuitous killing in the New York scenes! I dont think Jason would just walk past people without taking off a head or 2, I am sure in Manhatten the producers could have found some crackhead to clean up the blood for a piece of rock, LOL. The funny thing with this movie is, I don't think it was actually about Jason. The movie was more about Reenie. And that gave it some emotional gravity and made it more interesting. I personally found it to be a very wonderfully suspenseful, stylish, and wildly emotional film. I enjoyed it more than I can say. But I can see where it may have made other people feel seasick. There's alot to be said about this movie, and it's all good. There is even some scary moments which is rare in the "Friday The 13th" series. It has some decent kills and we get to see Jason kill a couple of human killers, which is great. I completely agree. Although, I thought part VI (Jason Lives), part 3, and part VII (The New Blood) had some very scary moments in them. The kills are very creative. I love the kill in the bathroom. I agree. The deaths in this movie didn't have to be gory - they were incredibly suspenseful and disturbing without all the gore. The death scene in the bathroom was insanely horrifying and almost... sad. For the first time in this entire series, they made me say- "NO! STOP! RUN AWAY! Don't kill (this person)!" I actually wanted the victims to get away. Which of course is a redundant effect, having to watch so many people die. But this is the first time I felt their humanity. In the other movies, you cheer the special effects because the victims are Paper-Cut Out People. But in this movie, I felt bad for every single person who died. And Tamara (the girl in the bathroom) didn't deserve to die that much. She didn't kill or rape anyone- nor did we see her vote Republican. Her death scene was so realistic and horrifying, you had to feel sympathy for her, no matter what she did. There was nothing glorious about these killings. They were for real- they were serious. what ruins it is the ballroom scene: Jason plays mind-tricks! teleports around the room!! and delivers the killing blow by strangulation!!! I seriously disagree. I agree the teleportation thing can be disliked by people who are paying more attention to Jason than the human characters. But, this is the kind of movie where flaws like this can be easily disregarded because this scene is probably the best extended death scene in the entire series. If you ignore the teleportation thing (which actually works, by the way, for the FEAR aspect of the scene- wouldn't you be much more scared by seeing him in every corner of the room??? No Macho B.S. - be honest, be serious: you would be, wouldn't you?), this death scene is downright elegant and works right along with the music which itself even highlights every stage of her death (notice how the tone of the music gets higher as he lifts her off the floor). Also, the detailed expression on her face. And the fact that she was a remarkably beautiful young woman and a fairly likeable person (who walked away from the mean-spirited Tamara when she saw her go too far). The boxing scene is hilarious. Another highlight. I liked that scene too. But, there was actually character stuff going on in that moment. Were you paying attention? I was. Who cares more about sports than movies?
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Post by GP on Jan 23, 2008 7:07:07 GMT -5
And breathe...
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Post by GL on Jan 23, 2008 11:23:04 GMT -5
I seriously disagree. I agree the teleportation thing can be disliked by people who are paying more attention to Jason than the human characters. But, this is the kind of movie where flaws like this can be easily disregarded because this scene is probably the best extended death scene in the entire series. If you ignore the teleportation thing (which actually works, by the way, for the FEAR aspect of the scene- wouldn't you be much more scared by seeing him in every corner of the room??? No Macho B.S. - be honest, be serious: you would be, wouldn't you?), this death scene is downright elegant and works right along with the music which itself even highlights every stage of her death (notice how the tone of the music gets higher as he lifts her off the floor). Also, the detailed expression on her face. And the fact that she was a remarkably beautiful young woman and a fairly likeable person (who walked away from the mean-spirited Tamara when she saw her go too far). You're forgetting some crucial facts about the scene. Off-screen teleportation only works when they're teleporting into places where it's plausible to do so without having to suspend disbelief that they got there. Coming up right next to a car with the trapped victims is perfectly fine, but here Jason does it inside a room where we've already been shown doesn't contain him to begin with, as the hallucinatory whirlwind across shows he isn't there when she locks herself in. Then, she just happens to look over and find him standing in the one spot where we've already seen the most times in the sequence. Then, Jason, master of 10,000 gardening tools, doesn't even have the decency to kill her in a spectacular fashion, choosing to strangle her? At least squeeze her head together and let the ooze fall away, but a simple, done-to-death strangling doesn't cut it. I don't mind the fact that they're there simply to upp the body count (by all means, give me those characters since they increase the body count, what you want in a slasher) but to do so in a completely improbably scene with a cheap, unimpressive kill doesn't make it that great. It doesn't have the irony of the boxing decapitation, the visual immediacy of the stabbing with glass or the vindication of the toxic barrel dumping.
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Post by Lazario on Jan 23, 2008 16:08:54 GMT -5
You're forgetting some crucial facts about the scene. Off-screen teleportation only works when they're teleporting into places where it's plausible to do so without having to suspend disbelief that they got there. Coming up right next to a car with the trapped victims is perfectly fine, but here Jason does it inside a room where we've already been shown doesn't contain him to begin with, as the hallucinatory whirlwind across shows he isn't there when she locks herself in. Then, she just happens to look over and find him standing in the one spot where we've already seen the most times in the sequence. I don't know what you're talking about. In a very good movie, a girl was running in a room and she saw him everywhere she turned. You make whatever you want of it. But I'm saying it does not matter. The scene works well, regardless. Sometimes, I liteally pop in the DVD and skip right to the chapter when it happens. The scene is so great, I just want to watch it sometimes just for the heck of it. It's only about 2:49, so I do. I know what happened in the scene. But I don't think it's wrong to ignore this Teleportation Manifesto you seem to subscribe to. The scene works anyway. Jason, master of 10,000 gardening tools, doesn't even have the decency to kill her in a spectacular fashion, choosing to strangle her? You don't think her death was spectacular??? I DISAGREE! I think that scene was spectacular. And didn't even need weapons. It continued on the movie's excellent series of very intense and suspenseful death scenes. If you expected something different - that's your fault. Do not go into movies expecting to see specific things. Ever. Let this be a lesson to you. At least squeeze her head together and let the ooze fall away, but a simple, done-to-death strangling doesn't cut it. I don't mind the fact that they're there simply to up the body count (by all means, give me those characters since they increase the body count, what you want in a slasher) but to do so in a completely improbably scene with a cheap, unimpressive kill doesn't make it that great. First of all: the scene itself is masterful. "That great" is an understatement. Second: I really don't get your beef with this. I could understand it if you were complaining about the movie doing something that is really wrong. But you're saying you don't approve. It didn't meet your standards; you expected something bigger, better... Well... Who cares? This movie did something none of the other Friday the 13th films did - it actually shows us how real this violence is. And it feels like it's happening to fairly real people. So, the point of the scenes is fear and terror. Not showy special effects. Bigger special effects, crazier death scenes... These would have ruined the movie. I felt bad for the victims instead of cheering their deaths on. That is a powerful thing for a movie in a series like this to accomplish. Didn't they tell you(?) - in every franchise, several films like to change the formula. It would be a different story if nothing positive was achieved by the change. But I happen to think they did a great thing with this movie. If this is not what you like, that's one thing. But, if you don't approve of this element of the movie... I feel sorry for you. I've received years of enjoyment from this movie. And one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much is that it dared to be different.
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Post by The Walking Dude on Jan 24, 2008 4:17:42 GMT -5
I think the 'teleportation' and mind tricks of this scene are meant to be from the point of view of the victim not the audience......... lets not forget the fact that she has been snorting cocaine not long before this.
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Post by GL on Jan 24, 2008 11:13:47 GMT -5
Off-screen teleportation is the ability of the killer to magically transport himself to the very spot where a potential victim is to perform the kill. This one uses the most eggregious one, since she runs into the room and we're given a once-over that she's alone. Then she turns and spots him in every single corner of the room. How did he get in after she had locked the doors and there's no evidence that he had broken one down? There's only one way Jason appeared in the room the way he did: IITS. It's not even a question of teleporting in, he appearing there because IITS.
And the issue with the kill method is still valid. Jason has done everything to a human body that is capable of being done: breaking in half, dismemberment, disembowelment, decapitation, stabbing, impaling, and dissecting. He's the master of a 1,000 gardening tools, and he always manages to find inventive ways to utilize them. To drop off, what had been until then a fun series of gruesome and visually striking deaths, for a lame choking is where the problem lies. It's a body count boosting kill, so to have to knock off them in that manner is just frustrating.
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Post by Lazario on Jan 25, 2008 8:07:47 GMT -5
I think the 'teleportation' and mind tricks of this scene are meant to be from the point of view of the victim not the audience... lets not forget the fact that she has been snorting cocaine not long before this. That's a good theory. I'm glad you brought it up. And it would very much serve to enhance the surrealness of the movie, itself. Which is, and I've heard the director talk about the movie, pretty much his intention. GL, I've explained myself pretty well. If I felt the way you did about that scene, I would probably be saying the same thing you're saying right now. But I think you're wrong about this movie. And I think you're also being very unfair. Basically- who cares about Jason's reputation? If the movie can do something different and do it well, there's no problem. No problem. If you were disappointed with the scene, I don't think the "problem" lies with the scene or the movie.
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Post by GL on Jan 25, 2008 11:11:26 GMT -5
I know, but the thing is, we're on a message board and I'm using a slight flaw in your reasoning to induce conversation. If you want to drop it, fine, but if you didn't want to defend your position, then what can I say.
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Post by Lazario on Jan 25, 2008 13:41:46 GMT -5
I know, but the thing is, we're on a message board and I'm using a slight flaw in your reasoning to induce conversation. What's the flaw in my reasoning? You responded as though I didn't say anything...
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Post by GL on Jan 26, 2008 11:17:52 GMT -5
The incorrect use of the off-screen teleportation rule to explain Jason's appearance in the dance hall. You are invoking it's properties, but it's to allow him into the room under the wrong circumstances. You're forgetting the scene when she runs in where she looks around at the different corners of the room and he's not there, then a reaction shot of her followed by a look again with him in one corner, then a frightened look of her around the room again showing him in every corner while the real one approches. That's an incorrect use of the rule and it goes against what the rule states.
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