HNT
Grizzled HMaM Vet
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Post by HNT on Jan 31, 2008 12:43:16 GMT -5
This is a slasher, what's on the surface is the film. This isn't Friedrich Nietzsche Takes Manhattan. . LMFAO. Very nice. Personally I'm partial to Renee Descartes takes Los Angeles and Hobbes and Locke Destroy Tokyo, but that one is pretty cool as well.
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Post by 7 on Jan 31, 2008 15:11:16 GMT -5
This is a slasher, what's on the surface is the film. This isn't Friedrich Nietzsche Takes Manhattan. . LMFAO. Very nice. Personally I'm partial to Renee Descartes takes Los Angeles and Hobbes and Locke Destroy Tokyo, but that one is pretty cool as well. Oh man, those are classics - but how did we forget 10 Things I Hate About Rousseau?
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Lazario
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Post by Lazario on Jan 31, 2008 17:10:00 GMT -5
This is a slasher, what's on the surface is the film. This isn't Friedrich Nietzsche Takes Manhattan. I have no idea what you're refering to. I'm not sure I would say that was the director's intention. Are you saying you have something against a director who aspires that his film be better than most slasher films?? All the acting was amateurish - granted they only served as cannon-fodder anyhow, but still. It's miles ahead of the casts in the previous 7 films. In fact, I am now forced to ask you: is this the only one of the Friday the 13th films you have seen? Then you have no knowledge about the genre in general. If by that you mean - I don't expect every horror film to conform to certain rules you think are set in stone... That's true. Look at just about any other entry in the series, take note of how the killer appears in the scene to deliver the kill and try to rationalize how he got there other than teleporting in. Some hide it better, but there's at least one in every film. I love this series. And if you are trying to say people Will Not Like This Scene because it's different from the other movies in this Friday the 13th series... Well, haven't I already proven that is not the case? If I have to be the first person to stand up and say your rules (which seem beyond "Absurd") don't matter to this film - so be it. I will. This film is extraordinary. And effective. And wonderful. And I still haven't heard anything legitimate to the contrary.
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HNT
Grizzled HMaM Vet
Horror in General & Everything Else Moderator[/i]
Kiss my tuchis
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Post by HNT on Jan 31, 2008 17:31:22 GMT -5
I just have to tell you that whatever it is that you see in this film that sets it apart form others in the series was wimply not evident to me. I have seen all of the F13 films (and agree with you that only the Paramount films count) but I think that this one is only slightly better than PArt 5 which was absolutely attrocius. I think that our difference in perception is based on personal preference. There is nothing about this film that I am missing. I've seen it several times and there jsut really is not all that much there. You are certainly more than welcome to enjoy this or any other film, but it is BY NO MEANS a case of the rest of us missing something in the film. It is JUST a slasher. And not much of one at that.
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Post by 7 on Jan 31, 2008 18:22:19 GMT -5
First of all - the basis of your argument is founded in a logical fallacy and contradiction. That being, in one sentence you are comparing all films to this one - and in another sentence you are comparing only films in the Friday series. So speaking logically, your argument is null based on a logical contradiction.
When comparing things in a syllogism, premise 1 cannot be 'all', and premise 2 cannot be 'some'.
That said, I suppose I can still answer it:
Point to where I said "there is something wrong with a director aspiring to make him film" better, or transcend genres. Oh right. . . I never said that. Kindly cease putting words into my mouth.
I did say that this film wasn't, and will never be, anything other than a piece of rubbish slasher film.
Now we arrive at one of the logical contradictions - if we're comparing to the other horribly acted Friday films, then yes - this one is slightly less than horribly acted. But I wasn't aware that when judging acting in a film you need only focus a narrow-mind on a single series and not an objective lens on the craft of acting.
About hearing legitimate dissenting viewpoints - you won't, and never will.
At current, the only things you stated that make this films so great are random exclamations: "This film is extraordinary!" "And wonderful!"
Rock solid argument.
I can't believe I accidentally stepped on my 'tact regulator' this morning. . .
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Lazario
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Post by Lazario on Feb 1, 2008 7:56:43 GMT -5
Sorry... The movie still rules.
And I am more than capable of providing a case for the movie by myself. But I refuse to do it to people as aggressive as you.
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Post by GL on Feb 1, 2008 11:14:05 GMT -5
Wow, the degree of which you have your head lodged up your ass in ignorance is both shocking and frightening. The rules of the slasher genre were created before many of us were even born. To quote Randy from Scream, there are rules to a slasher movie, although not the ones everyone seems to know. There's the have-sex-and-die/don't-have-sex-and-live one, the it's-never-over reasoning in the epilogue that everyone knows, but there's also the fact that a killer isn't bound by the laws of physics in these movies. They are allowed to appear were ever it is necessary to carry out a killing, and most of them, when thought out logically, aren't even the slightest realistic, but are only let through based on the realisticness and graphicness of the event. This one falls flat because it shows her safe in the room, then he teleports in. That's the part that gets the reduction. He deliberately teleports in after being shown she's safe. Take a look at that scene again: she locks the door behind her and a pan around shows she's safe, then Jason appears in the room in front of a door that has previously been seen to have been locked. That's where it goes wrong, not that's a bad scene but that he deliberately teleports into the room to carry out the kill. The lameness is another question, but frankly, he teleports in. The others hide it well, to the point of not drawing attention to it, but this one out and out deliberately does it.
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Lazario
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Post by Lazario on Feb 1, 2008 13:10:42 GMT -5
Wow, the degree of which you have your head lodged up your ass in ignorance is both shocking and frightening. I could say the same thing about you. So what? You cannot say movies have to follow rules. Look at how many movies haven't. From Return of the Living Dead who decided zombies should be able to run and eat brains. To Yellow Submarine who said musical movies don't have to make sense. To Stanley Kubrick's Shining that said movie adaptations of books don't have to follow the book. Each slasher film makes its own rules for itself. Each film makes its own rules for itself. It kind of IS what this whole form of entertainment is all about. And I can pretty much solid-gold, money-back guarantee you that if you told filmmakers they had to follow a set of rules to each movie before they made it, they would either not make the movie at all, or say- "fuck you" and do it their way anyway. Sorry, but - at this point, I think it's more than fair to say "You're Overruled." Since now you seem to be getting quite hostile about this.
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Post by GP on Feb 1, 2008 15:14:41 GMT -5
And I am more than capable of providing a case for the movie by myself. But I refuse to do it to people as aggressive as you. And I am more than capable of providing a case for the movie by myself. But I refuse to do it to people as articulate as you. Corrected.
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HNT
Grizzled HMaM Vet
Horror in General & Everything Else Moderator[/i]
Kiss my tuchis
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Post by HNT on Feb 1, 2008 17:53:52 GMT -5
Alright, now I am just highly frustrated and have to say something to all of you. I have a feeling that this will be viewed as directed only at Laz, but it is not. The most frustrating thing about this turn of events is that it involves many people whom I have been chatting with for quite some time, and who never really exhibited thi sort of irritating behavior before.
This is the only board that I regularly post on. There was a time when I was a member of several message boards, and one by one they all ceased to interest me because people would engage in the sort of senseless bickering and insults that are being traded here without really focusing on the films as anything more than a vehicle by which to lob barbed comments at one another.
Anyway, I really don't expect anybody to cae taht much about my personal situation, but it has changed such that I really don't find myself with excess time to pass posting on messageboards. In other words, I go out of my way to make time to be on this board talking to you guys when I have other things that I probably should be doing simply because I like you all so much and find that the discussions here are more highbrow than on any similarly themed board on the net. indeed, they are often better than the conversations that we have on these topics in person.
Long story short, we have something special here at HMaM. It REALLY IS DIFFERENT from other boards on the internet, and I would hate to see that vibe ruined by a bunch of silly flame wars. Rant over, for now...
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Post by 7 on Feb 1, 2008 18:33:34 GMT -5
Yes, I normally don't allow myself to sink into flaming, but I guess my resolve was weak at the moment. If I offended anyone, I do apologize - and what HNT speaks of is the truth. So, with that in mind, I will refrain from posting any more messages in this thread and do my damnedest to forget anything I read in here - so to not foul future interactions. This would normally be the part where I buy you all a pint. . . but oh well, just envision it
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Post by Jen on Feb 1, 2008 18:35:07 GMT -5
I agree, HNT....I have had to leave forums in the past, because I have no interest in seeing people being just outright insulting toward each other. I've seen enough of that. This place really has been different, members here have typically been more respectful of differing opinions, and I would hate for it to go the way of so many other forums I have been a part of. I really would, that thought makes me sad. This has been a place that I have loved, and felt comfortable posting at for so long, when I haven't felt that way at other places.
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Post by GL on Feb 2, 2008 11:35:55 GMT -5
I guess, first and foremost, I should make a confession. I had originally intended for this to become something like a feud that the board held, just something that we had to get some interest in some threads so that we can have some sort of activity on here. It was in the best interests of the place, as it would be something that would have some sort of consistent discussion going on compared to what had happened previously, as the most frequently updated threads would be the last movie watched one, and figured something like this would get some excitement back into it and bring some life back. It was something I planned on when the frequency and the consistency of Laz's posts became obvious, as you did, to an extent, use a lot of the logic and arguments that I planned you would make to keep it active, even though sometimes I used half-ass logic just to say something to keep it going. However, once it resorted to a flame-war, then I did lose interest in it, and then yesterday, for some reason, I was cranky when I woke up and that was something that I took my irritations on. I am 150% sorry for saying that, and for any and all stress that I may have inflicted in the coarse of this.
Laz, you are a hell of an opponent, and you have won my respect for the way you have stuck to your guns throughout this little feud we have been engaged in. I hope you can accept this, put this little issue behind us and become friends, as you do seem like a nice person whenever you don't sound pissed.
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Lazario
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Post by Lazario on Feb 2, 2008 13:58:14 GMT -5
Laz, you are a hell of an opponent, and you have won my respect for the way you have stuck to your guns throughout this little feud we have been engaged in. I hope you can accept this, put this little issue behind us and become friends, as you do seem like a nice person whenever you don't sound pissed. Thank you very much. And I never felt we stopped being friends. Although it did seem several times that you weren't paying attention to a single word I was saying. I have to also say that you've consistently been the most respectful poster toward me, considering that we disagree nearly 90% of the time. I wouldn't argue on behalf of this movie, which apparently you all just hate, if I didn't think I was right. I meant "aggressive" when I said it. Nothing I say about this movie can fight the unbelievable amount of hate this movie gets on the internet. So nobody here has to worry. I won't be able to save it from drowning. You'll get your way. But just the same, think about what you people are saying for 2 seconds. The movie intended to be different from the others in the series. So, if you don't like the changes, don't you think that might have tainted your critical view? And when you actually sit down, watch a movie, pay attention to it... an intelligent person knows a title doesn't mean shit. Who the fuck cares if it says Jason Takes Manhattan, or "Jason Picks Flowers in a Sunny Meadow for 3 Hours"? It's, in my opinion, unbelievably petty and jackass-like to whine about a movie's title. If you care more about the title than the movie before you watch it, why would you continue to watch a movie beyond it's opening credits sequence? Because even you know, a title doesn't mean shit. If anyone here wants to further argue this specific point - let me save us both time: Don't Bother. Rob Hedden as a writer is very gifted (or was when he made this movie). He intended it to be more character driven than anything else. I'll never say it's a full-out masterpiece. But it doesn't have to be. What it is however is a better type of film than the others are in terms of character. And I HAPPEN TO THINK what he wrote was very effective. Rennie is a real person dealing with a real fear. And even if anyone else thinks it's inappropriate subject matter, too dramatic or whatever, for a Friday the 13th film, I have to stop you and say, Part VII: The New Blood also had a main character who went through emotional character archs (not as well as Rennie, or actress Jensen Daggett). So that was more than emotion preparation for a movie like this to be entered into the series. The film itself is not even remotely silly or unserious in tone. And that's one of its great attributes (of which there are several). It is completely respectful of the characters onscreen. The accusations that the acting in this film is anything other than good and adequate are borderline dismissive (to a degree which I find ignorant). Why would actors even agree to do a film like this and not give it their all? Well, I think I'm pretty good at telling when someone tried very hard. And almost every cast member onscreen is a pro. At least for this calibre of movie. The production must have hired a new casting director after The New Blood. I've watched this movie several times. And if anything, I haven't become "tolerant" to the actors' performances. If anything, I've become more critical (as I tend to be on repeated viewings). And I can't really bring to mind one single actor in the movie I think did a bad job on this movie. As for the accusation that the film is nothing more than a slasher film, you can regard it as anything you want to. I think if we do consider this a slasher film, it's fair to say it's a damn good one. But I also think the director had aspirations for this film to focus less on special effects and more on the intensity of a killer stalking victims, and the situations of people being confronted by an unstoppable killer. This is the only film in the series that wants the murder scenes to have a realness to them. To not be fun. And I don't think anyone has a right to say that was the wrong approach for the film to take. I can see where a lot of people didn't have fun with the movie. It must have felt a little (subconsciously, perhaps) like the film was judging the viewers who were fans of the previous movies for finding the murders in those films entertaining. If anything, I think the director should be applauded for the way he portrayed violence in this movie. After all, we wouldn't find real violence entertaining if we were the victims in these movies. I don't pretend that this is definitely his approach to making this movie. But that's surely what it feels like. Either way, the murders feel very real. And are presented very unglamorously. Without the benefit of over-the-top special effects and lots of blood and gore. What I like most about the movie though are its stylistic elements. I've watched this movie (along with parts 1 and 3) more times than any other in the series. So I think I know what I'm talking about when I say it's a very creepy movie. There's a lot of suggestions that bad things are lurking everywhere. This is also a movie unlike the others in the series because there are no scenes in pitch-dark. Every scene is lit by some light in a room somewhere. But within those lit spaces, the shadows cast from objects look downright sinister. All the black in these lit rooms looks that much darker. The whole movie has a strange surreal visual approach that I love. Everything about the style of this movie works hand-in-hand to create what I feel is an expert feel that sets reality off balance. Maybe nobody else picked up on that because they were impatient with the movie. If that's the case, I don't think the film nor I should be held accountable for it. So, if that's all you have to say to me, I would rather you just kept it to yourself. If you have something I can actually wrap my brain around - I'm more than open.
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Post by GL on Feb 3, 2008 11:40:33 GMT -5
Whoa, who said anything about me not liking the movie? I enjoy it, it's one of my favorites from the Paramount series. I just have a problem with the one scene. That's it.
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