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Post by Leatherface on Oct 8, 2009 21:22:54 GMT -5
i'm boycotting the remake. sympathetic freddy who was wrongly accused is a big no no in my book. what amde freddy scary was that he seemed like he was from hell. that he was just evil. not a wrongly accused man who wants revenge. i let the sympathic storyline slip for halloween becuase rob ( somehow) made it work. in freddys case, we do not need to know about his motive or childhood ect. that ruins the fear. also jackie looks like shit in this.
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Post by Bone Daddy on Oct 8, 2009 22:44:23 GMT -5
I agree, sometimes its best NOT to explain as to the why and leave it as it is. Western culture always wants to have an explanation for why things are. There must be some origin or catalyst to make something or somebody go awry.
I submit, as with some eastern or Asian cultures, Evil is just that...EVIL.
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HNT
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Post by HNT on Oct 9, 2009 9:15:32 GMT -5
I dunno. Rewatch the original. I am not saying that having Freddy wrongly accused makes any sense, but the original was not just about a child killer. It was about Freddy coming back because he wanted revenge agaisnt the children of the people who burned him alive. There was really no question that there was a message in the original that what happened to him was not justified whether or not he committed the crimes. This was further brought home by the image of Nancy's mother as an alcoholic mess (the message of which seemed to be that she couldn't quite live with what she'd done).
There was an element of that in Last House on the Left too. Craven was once very interested in the inhuman actions of regular people seeking revenge and in the general acceptance of horriffic violence by all members of our society
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Post by The Walking Dude on Oct 11, 2009 2:14:36 GMT -5
Great point HNT, the vigilante justice didn't stop Freddy it only served to make him and the situation much worse
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HNT
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Post by HNT on Oct 11, 2009 17:13:50 GMT -5
Exactly, Matt. Thats why I think making Freddy innocent is intellectually cheap because the same points could be made about crime and punishment if he were guilty, I don't think it is nearly as problematic as others seem to. The message of the film was not that Freddy was a child molester. That is true certainly, but the message of the film is that sometimes the revenge you seek will haunt you (and your dreams) long after whatever wrongs inspired vengeance havve faded from memory.
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Post by CT on Oct 11, 2009 17:38:15 GMT -5
That's a theme in the movie I never gave much thought to but it is another interesting layer now that you mention it.
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Post by Jen on Oct 12, 2009 14:51:31 GMT -5
Exactly, Matt. Thats why I think making Freddy innocent is intellectually cheap because the same points could be made about crime and punishment if he were guilty, I don't think it is nearly as problematic as others seem to. The message of the film was not that Freddy was a child molester. That is true certainly, but the message of the film is that sometimes the revenge you seek will haunt you (and your dreams) long after whatever wrongs inspired vengeance havve faded from memory. There is very much a "sins of the father" theme running through the film. After all, Freddy is the children's bogeyman....NOT the parents'. The parents are pretty oblivious to the monster their children are facing. And in that way, it does make a difference whether or not he was guilty. Because when it comes down to it, revenge was not the ONLY motivation of the parent's or of Freddy himself. Freddy represents a very real threat that children face. A threat that can also haunt a victim, and the people that love them, years after the crime itself. These are not the kinds of wrongs that fade from memory. These are the kinds of wrongs that can ruin lives forever. Maybe the mother was not only haunted by what she had done, but what was taken from her. Who knows, maybe she loved one of Freddy's original victims. Freddy was not just a victim of vigilante justice, but a human monster that took pleasure in the brutalization and murder of the most innocent of victims, and that was an important part of the film. The parent's actions were not purely motivated by revenge (though obviously that was part of it, burning someone alive is a particularly horrible way to kill someone) but also by fear. This wasn't the case of a group of peoples taking action against someone that they THOUGHT might be a threat. They knew he was. And the justice system failed to protect their children, and so did they. These were the actions of not only vengeful people, but of people that were absolutely terrified that their children would be next. Of people that felt he had to be stopped to protect the people they loved, no matter what the cost. I think that revenge, and its ramifications are definitely a theme in the film, but so is the victimization of children, victims that often have no voice. And its an important one, one that is undermined by making Freddy wrongly accused.
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Post by CT on Oct 12, 2009 15:00:40 GMT -5
Bullseye Jen
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Post by The Walking Dude on Oct 13, 2009 3:19:02 GMT -5
Maybe the mother was not only haunted by what she had done, but what was taken from her. Who knows, maybe she loved one of Freddy's original victims. Freddy was not just a victim of vigilante justice, but a human monster that took pleasure in the brutalization and murder of the most innocent of victims, and that was an important part of the film. you are exactly right Jen,there is a deleted scene that reveals Nancy had an older sibling, who was one of Fred's victims
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HNT
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Post by HNT on Oct 14, 2009 9:31:13 GMT -5
THt is an interesting take on it. I think you are definitely right. Interesting point
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Post by CT on Oct 14, 2009 11:35:50 GMT -5
Maybe the mother was not only haunted by what she had done, but what was taken from her. Who knows, maybe she loved one of Freddy's original victims. Freddy was not just a victim of vigilante justice, but a human monster that took pleasure in the brutalization and murder of the most innocent of victims, and that was an important part of the film. you are exactly right Jen,there is a deleted scene that reveals Nancy had an older sibling, who was one of Fred's victims Didn't know about that scene Matt. It would fill in some missing pieces in the story.
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Post by Jen on Oct 14, 2009 11:49:10 GMT -5
you are exactly right Jen,there is a deleted scene that reveals Nancy had an older sibling, who was one of Fred's victims Didn't know about that scene Matt. It would fill in some missing pieces in the story. I didn't know about the scene either.....but it definitely makes sense to me.
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Post by The Walking Dude on Oct 14, 2009 16:24:17 GMT -5
I thought i posted the scene from You tube but i guess it didnt work, or it had to be removed,apparently it appeared as an extra on one of the old laserdisc releases , but to my knowledge has never shown up on any DVD release. I don't know why Craven cut it. Adds so much more depth.
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Post by CT on Oct 14, 2009 17:34:38 GMT -5
Yes, sounds like a scene that should not have ended up on the cutting room floor. I wonder what they're waiting for releasing it as an extra feature....the 100th anniversary PlatinumRay edition?!
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Post by Leatherface on Oct 14, 2009 18:29:48 GMT -5
actually i saw it on a tv version. her mom hinted taht she had an older brother when nancy was a small child and that freddy had killed him brutally. it's like that courtoom scene in the original halloween. it only appears on tv versions for whatever reason
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