On tour as we speak

[CT]

lmao, I'm starting to wonder about you HNT

[HNT]

lol. Wonder away. I will remain an enigma. A straight enigma, but an enigma nonetheless

[CT]

Just tell me you haven't dressed up as Dorothy for Halloween?

[Nobody]

I have.

[CK]

punk18 said:

So are you all saying that KISS is a terrible band that should of disappeared years ago? If so, then you might want to know that I am a full fledged KISS soldier, joined a month ago. And I got all of their emails. Just so's you know.

I never said KISS was a horrible band, but lets face it they are not the best band in the world by a long shot! Now some of you guys had made the comment that KISS was a sellout band for many reasons. One of those reasons was because of their stageshow being so theatric. Well I know we have spoken before about how cool GWAR is, well if you stop and think about it, as far as their live performances go, how are they any different than KISS. Slipknot, The Misfits, they all wear make up or masks, would you call those bands sellouts as well? Just so you guys know I am not downing those bands, everyone here knows how big a fan of The Misfits, and GWAR I am. But the word sellout bothers me. Mainly because most people who use that word have never picked up a guitar in their life. not saying that you guys havent I dont know if any of you play. The point is when I hear someone say sellout, I say, "could you go up there and play like them?" most cant, and if anyone asks me that back, at least I can say yes, I have played in bands (none went anywhere lol), but at least if Gene Simmons asked me to fill in on bass so he could bang a groupie, I could go up and play! But that is just my opinion.

[CT]

Yeah, I mean KISS hasn't really changed anything about their acts so technically they never "sold out". Because they were never different. The only reason KISS is called sellouts isn't because of their makeup and live theatrics, it's also because they market themselves like George Lucas markets Star Wars. And they're a lot more mainstream than someone like Gwar or the Misfits. I'm not a fan of KISS for most of those reasons, plus their music is kind of generic, but I don't take it personally. They can do what they want, they've been doing it for over 30 years anyhow. I think what bothers people the most is when a band has a lot of underground roots and then they alter their music to become more commercially successful. Just my thoughts. Peace.

[Nobody]

Yea I never said KISS was a sellout because of their theatrics or stage shows. I listen to alot of BM bands that are just as bad as kiss when it comes to whereing makeup and crap, but I get past it and just listen to the music. I only called KISS sellouts for the reason CT mentioned which is how they market themselves with action figures and comic books, etc. HNT pointed out thought that I can't really call them sellouts because they have been marketing themselves like that from the very beginning. lol. And being a sellout doesn't mean you can't make good music either. It just means you are selling out and doing everything for only the money. Im not saying musicians should just play for free and not make money, but I when you start marketing yourself with backpacks, wallets, action figures, and comic books...well..thats a sellout.

[CK]

Okay then let me put it to you in a different way. If any of you were in a band and you said you were in it only for the artistic expression, and you had a multi-million dollar record contract, then I would call you a fucking liar. I have been in bands I ahve played gigs, if I told you where one of my bands played you wouldnt believe me. But I wanted the money, I wanted the girls, I never wanted to be a well respected musician, I wanted to be a rock star. THAT MY FRIENDS IS WHAT IS ALL ABOUT!!!! Every Death Meatal band you might listen to will tell you the same thing, I can gaurentee it, I was in the business. So being a sell out is an every band thing. The only way you cant be a sell out is if a record exec. comes to you with a contract and you tell him to go fuck himself!!!!!! I know no one who would do that! The moment you

[Nobody]

Who cares. DM and BM are fun genres to listen to. I don't take the music seriously. I listen to all types of music though (so stop thinking I only listen to DM or BM) and believe me, what you just said is not everyones view. Some artists don't actually do it for the money, they do it for the message. People like Immortal Technique are out there for their musical creativity and getting whatever their message is to be heard. Which in his case is a political one and the injustice done by governments. He has told record labels to go fuck themselves a couple of times, and released his first CD from in his apartment. You can still make money and not be a sell out though. Look at Rage Against The Machine. They made money, but they didn't sell out, and their music had a message. Point is that you sellout when all your in is for the money. You don't care about the music anymore.

[HNT]

Actually Rage is a bad example, LDC. They are a perfect example of Revolution lite sold to the masses by a major label. THey are fun, but not particularly full of artistic integrity. THat said, there are MANY examples of bands that have refused to compromise their ethics in order to sell more records. I'll give you three that come to mind easily. NOFX certainly sell a lot of records, but they never signed a major label recording contract, have refused to film a video or allow any of their music to be played on the radio. They have been the biggest name band signed to Epitaph records for years, and have passed up millions of dollars rather than leave the label that broke them. Jello Biafra is no sellout (though other members of the Dead Kennedys certainly are). He took the oney hat he made from selling bootlegs of the first Kennedys single "Holiday in Cambodia" and started Alternative Tentacles records so that he could continue to promote the type of leftwing poitical hardcore that he believed in. IN the eighties he went bankrupt and almost lost the label fighting an obscenity charge against artwork that he included with the DK's Frankenchrist album. How many artists can you think of who would be willing to risk their entire careers rather than change the packaging of a record. Certainly not Metallica (think Metal up Your Ass) or Ice-T with the whole thing about "Cop Killer" on the Bodycount album back in 1991. What about Fugazi. Fugazi are alternaive rock pioneers who are loved and respected by musicians as popular and diverse as PEarl JAm, Radiohead, and REM. THey are devout Hare Krishnas, however, and refuse to sign with a major label or do any sort of self promotion 2whatsoever. Tickets to a Fugazi show only cost $10 to this day, and they refuwse to sell their tickets through any third part vendors. though they have been invited to be a pert of several huge tours, Lollapalooza, warped etc., they have refused and continue to play only small clubs that subscribe to the same ideals and ethics that they do. In any event, my point is that bands do not all sell out or make music for the money. MAny do, but jsut as many do not. Sometimes those bands are so talented that tehy get recognized anyway. That is the best case scenario. THere si nothing wrong with liking more popular bands. Some of them are great. There is something special about knowing that you discoverd some truly special music because you kept your ears open and enjoyed it, rather than because some douchebag record company PR guy decided to sell you the new flavor of the month and you bought it hook, line, and sinker. Support the underground scenes. They still produce the best and most talented artists. Rant over

[Nobody]

Actually RATM was a good example. It was to show that you can be signed to a major label and not be a sell out. They donated tons of money to various donations and even the EZLN in the Chiapas if Im correct. They are one of the best political bands to come around and were heavily involved in political activism.

[HNT]

They produced songs based entirely on cheap political sloganeering with very little thought behind them. don't get me wrong, they tend to share the same political persuasion that I do, but they don't really articulate it very well

[Nobody]

Well you can't really write an essay or somthing and then sing it HNT. Jello Biafra doesn't articulate any more than they do in their songs. Not only do they write the songs, but they are also involved in activism too. I wish I could go to the Chiapas.

[HNT]

Jello Biafra doesn't celebrate terrorists or murderers the way that Rage does on Sendero Luminoso. Jello, in fact, has never advocated violence. It is pretty contradictory to advocate violent revolution and the downfall of capitalism from the comfort of a major record label, don'tcha think?

[Nobody]

True, but Im support 'em 100% with the EZLN. Atleast they are getting a message out there though.

If you wanna hear some really good political lyrics then you should check out Immortal Technique. Only thing that annoys me is his blatant homophobia in some of his songs. Other than that it is some the best lyrics you will hear.